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Steel Dawn (1987)
IMDB rating: 4.10
Plot: In a post-apocalyptic world, a warrior wandering through the desert comes upon a group of settlers who are being menaced by a murderous gang that is after the water they control.
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Directors: Hool Lance
Actors: Swayze Patrick,Zerbe Anthony,Neame Christopher,James Brion,Fujioka John,Hool Brett,Van Heerden Marcel,Vosloo Arnold,Whyle James,Savadier Russel,Ribeiro Joe,Heyns Alex,Morris Brad,Moneta Tullio,Action,Sci-Fi,
Help horse with "buttersoft" mouth - i think not?
Ok, my horse was used in a rubber straight bit a few years ago
then he was used in a riding school and im not sure what he was used in there, but he ended up biting and kicking people so they kicked him out after 4 years (i can imagine why he bit and kicked, he was used from dawn til dusk, and he was the only big horse so he got all the over-weight begginers and such)
well now, i have trid him in everything from tom thumb, to a german snaffle, to an eggbutt snaffle, to a pelham! And he DESTROYED my trainers copper and steel snaffle
the problem?? he PULLS like a train, just today he took off xc and hit my leg on a gate, it is very very bruised now
he also chomps on the bit when he’s stressed (hence the destruction of the copper snaffle)
i would put a rubber bit back on him, if i had one and if i trusted enough that he wouldnt bolt on me
i was wondering what would you put on him? atm he has no nose band and he’s in the german snaffle (which is very wide and soft) should i put him in a sweet iron? or should i leave him in the snaffle and put a grackle or hanoverian noseband on him?
any help is appreciated 
(if ive left something out please let me know and i’ll let you know)
There is a saying in my new book that goes.." You don’t need a different bit.. What you need is a bit more knowledge" Try this:
If you are determined to try retraining him you need to start or I should say re start him just like any other unbroken horse. Start with a lot of round pen and ground work getting him to move his feet constructively, bend flex laterally (side to side) and vertically, softly. Which means he needs to yield or give to pressure of the halter to start and then to the bit. Go as softly as you can with him and release the pressure and the slightest change. Get him to break his hind quarters over and disengage when you bend him from side to side. This is the start of a one rein stop which will help you shut him down when he trys to run away with you. This will be long and tedious process that will take a lot of patience and study on your part and it still might not work in the end. So be prepared for what ever might come up and seek the help of a good horseman in your area if you get into a spot you cant handle.. Good luck!
Best regards and "Just Ride"
Smokie Brannaman
Source(s):
www.smokiebrnnaman.com
Smokie Brannaman | Jan 18, 2010
I have never heard of a german snaffle, only german silver which is just a metal material. You should try putting a noseband with a flash or figure eight on him, that will help keeping him from avoiding contact. For the bit you may want to try a gag. http://www.poloshop.ie/images/forTheHors e/Bridle&Accessories/Gag-Bit.jpg It’s for horses that pull and lean. Rather than just staying in place so they can pull at it the bit will slide up in the mouth, making the horse come back up. It is used with two reins, one set on the sliders and one set on the rings.
Kylie! | Jan 18, 2010
Maybe you should try Dr. Cook’s bitless bridle. Or any similar bitless bridles. Apparently they are much more humane than using a bit, so the horse would be happier, and would break the habit of chewing on the bit. Good Luck with him x
HorsesRule | Jan 18, 2010
The best bit I have ever found with a horse that pulls and bolts, and also chomps through nervousness is the mikmar.
he is probably chomping because he is worried, and without seeing you both in action and only going off what you say here, then I am assuming he is worried because of his mouth.
The mikmar is very light even though on pictures it looks like it would be heavy - and it only comes in to play aas and when it is needed -ie - if a horse is going along nicely, the bit only puts pressure on the tongue, the bars and the lips of the horses mouth. if he raises or lowers his head above or below the angle of control the bit then comes in to action and puts poll or curb pressure on. if he leans, the bit works on the roof of the mouth stopping him from leaning or pulling.
this is the combination bit I would use on horses like you describe http://www.mikmar.com/bit-pages/combo-bi t.html
there is another combo that has longer shanks for more leverage but I have never found any horse a problem in the one above.
Sharon | Jan 18, 2010
I use a nice Double Jointed Full-cheek snaffle. The thinner the stronger it is. I also add a Hanoverian Noseband on him
petsinformation | Jan 18, 2010
His problem is not with the bit, and you won’t fix it by changing the bit. This horse is young, and riding has pretty much always been stressful and painful for him. He finds the whole riding experience upsetting. What he needs is to be retrained from scratch, starting with learning to accept the bit through groundwork, and only graduating to riding when he is relaxed and softly accepting the bit without a rider. If you find yourself a qualified trainer, it won’t take long and will be well worth the investment in his future because you both will have a lot more fun if you do this.
Amanda | Jan 18, 2010
If you’ve tired all of those bits, and he’s been used in a riding school..butter soft is very likely Not the mouth your dealing with. By now if he pulls like a train, chomps and destroys bits then he has a mouth of steel.
Your choices are simple. put him in a thick snaffle with a flash or figure 8 nose band and be prepared to haul him around in Lots and Lots of circles when he gets too strong. He’ll figure out the game after a while but it does take time.
Another option is to try him in a chain mouth. http://www.mcdiamond.com/bits/reinsman/r ingsnaffles/bb543.htm the flat link is not harsh as it looks. The bit conforms to the mouth and tongue. Its action is on the corners and the lips . It works wonders on strong horses with hard mouths, and suprisingly on ones with soft over sensitive mouths. I’ve used this for years on field hunters, endurance horses and a few jumpers ( I’m a huge fan of hackamores, and this bit was easily accepted by all of my hackamore horses over the years when a bit was "required")
heres a few to look at.
http://www.showstoppertack.com/Display.a sp?ID=2927
http://www.thetackstop.com/bitr337.htm
there are many styles out there and they are used in every event you can think of
My turtle "Rock" | Jan 18, 2010
Great answers, Amanda and Smokie! It’s not a bit problem, it’s a training problem.
I’ve found that when a horse gets heavy on a bridle, the way to soften him is to soften your riding. Don’t give him anything to fight against, and don’t use things that are designed to hurt him - harsh bits, curb chains, most tie downs, tight nosebands, etc.
Take him back to school, starting at kindergarten. Help him to understand what you want and help him calmly give it to you. I like to take my green and rehab horses for walks in hand, down the streets and trails. It’s a great way to bond and teach basic lessons like whoa and go, and also build mutual confidence and understanding. The horse sees you right there on the ground next to him, facing down the monsters and keeping him safe, and you’re safe on your own two feet if he should start misbehaving.
Another suggestion is to get out of his mouth entirely, at least for the start of the retraining process. Since he obviously has an ingrained habit of fighting with a bit, if you want to change that habit, start with removing the stimulus, the bit. Since you’re starting the whole training process over, you can start with a bosal or sidepull/jumping hackamore. The last two are basically the same thing, just the different noseband and strapwork holding it on the horse’s head.
Please don’t imagine a mechanical hackamore is kinder or gentler than a bit! It is a powerful compound leverage device, a very strong curb bit. The only difference is that you’re crunching on his nose and lower jaw instead of his mouth and lower jaw.
You can try the Dr. Cook if you want, though they’re pricey and I’m not sold on their superiority to the traditional bitless bridles. I haven’t yet seen one that provides a sufficiently prompt release for serious training.
If you want to return to a using a bit, I’d suggest making a gradual transition while reinforcing the lessons of responding softly to the reins. If you are comfortable using 4 reins, you can put 2 on the bitless and 2 on the reintroduced bit. I like to use the Fillis grip for this work, as you can really isolate the actions of each set of reins. The Fillis rein grip is done with one rein coming in at the thumb, and one at the pinky finger. This way you can change the rein effect by which way you turn your wrists.
If a person isn’t restarting the whole training process, but they want to try a bitless for a change, they should give the horse a good introduction to it and test it out a little, before just jumping on and going out for a ride. It’s a big change and if the horse isn’t prepared for it, you could land in a world of hurt.
I often start and then continue to ride with a simple halter, either the rope or flat kind. It is already familiar to the horse, he knows how to respond to it, and rarely is a horse afraid of the action of a halter. I could ride my mare down the roadside, ponying a difficult horse, with just a halter on her head. I preferred a simple halter, because I often had to focus on the ponied horse more than my own riding. I couldn’t always be as sensitive as I prefer to be, when I was trying to make sure the &^#& ponied horse wasn’t going to pull the saddle sideways. or otherwise get the three of us in trouble. With a halter, I wasn’t going to inflict any unintended, unnecessary pain on my good mare if I had to grab up reins for a sudden whoa.
It ain’t about the bit, it’s about the training.
Bliss | Jan 18, 2010
but more importantly, you don’t really want to go to scoundrel school, do you? Do you really want to become the obnoxious, selfish, loud, and usually not too bright, group of booger-eating-morons that you can’t stand? Why not enroll in a martial arts class, a philosophy class, music, art, or any other subject that you’re interested in, and focus on learning things that might help keep you from being bullied, and/or that you just enjoy doing and makes you feel good? It sounds to me like you are an intelligent, kind, caring person that wouldn’t really enjoy acting like an idiot… it isn’t your nature. You would probably be miserable! So be happy that you are superior to these dregs of society~ you will attract & meet plenty of quality people if you just continue to be yourself. Sometimes it just takes awhile. Good luck, and take care!
SomVietKid | Aug 26, 2008
